Should the TYPE-MOON Wiki fork to another wiki host? This topic has been broached in the Proposed changes page, but this issue feels large enough to warrant its own platform.
The last year has seen many, many wikis move off of Fandom - some with considerably large communities such as the Minecraft wiki and the World of Warcraft wikis. You can find many discussions about the topic but they largely agree on the following issues:
- Degraded user experience, including instrusive ads inserts.
- Fandom prioritising its own interests and engagement over those of wiki communities and lack of transparency over their decisions.
- Negative sentiment towards wikis who remain on Fandom due to the above reasons.
The biggest concerns with moving from Fandom for any wiki remain Fandom's forking policy and competing with its Search Engine Optimisation (SEO). To borrow from the Minecraft wiki's discussion on the matter, "This means that we will basically be creating a new wiki with the same content and revision history brought over, and moving the editor-base to the new wiki (assuming the community is aware of and agrees to the move). The Fandom wiki, while no longer having its existing editors, will continue to remain up without any indication that it's moved, competing with and likely outranking the new wiki in Google search results due to Fandom's high SEO."
Even so, this feels worth considering for the longevity of the wiki's future, and while there's the option to keep the revision history intact as well.
Please comment with thoughts below the page break.
Discussion
Yeah, having to leave behind a corpse that Fandom will try to repopulate is probably the number one reason I'd say not to at the moment. I I don't think it's reached the point that this particular wiki is greatly negatively affected, so I'd wait until enough shit hits the fan. Every change makes the site less user-friendly, and they clearly show no intention of changing that, parading around vanity projects to deflect from why people want to leave. So it may not be long. -- EGGS (talk) 02:40, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm concerned they'll eventually remove the ability to export wiki content entirely, however likely it'll be. -- Banksia (talk) 06:37, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
I actually don't see any problem with the move as long as it's a convenience for editors and users. The same Warcraft Wiki, as far as I can tell, now quite successfully competes with Wowpedia and is also on the first page of the search engine. So, if the move takes place, then nothing bad will happen, people will gradually switch to the new wiki and everything will be fine. -- KapitanKrabik (talk) 11:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
I don't think it's a good idea to wait "until enough shit hits the fan", as EGGS says. I understand the sentiment of not wanting to fix what isn't broken, but I think it's clear enough that Fandom is never going to benefit this wiki in ways an independent host would be incapable of doing. The way I see it, there's three main issues with moving: SEO, making sure users actually follow us over, and cost. In solving these first two problems, we have an advantage over many other fandoms who have wikis trapped on Fandom: our fandom is independently organised. When the Yu-Gi-Oh wiki moved, it had the support of YGOrganization, a major source of fantranslations, in doing so; while the Yu-Gi-Oh Fandom wiki still beats the independent Yugipedia in most search results, Yugipedia is on the first page of many Yu-Gi-Oh related searches, because YGOrganization helped spread the word. We could organise a similar arrangement with Beast's Lair; I'm sure regular Beast's Lair users would understand the value of an independent TYPE-MOON wiki. This would also solve the problem of users following, because having access to support from Beast's Lair in fantranslations and whatnot would make switching to the new wiki more attractive, as long as we spread the word properly. The most important part of this is that third point, however: knowing that there would be someone prepared to register and pay for a new domain in perpetuity, who would then become the website's owner. Is anyone prepared to do this? Wiki.gg would be a viable alternative to needing that cost as well. -- FacelessMoon5 (talk) 14:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- I brought this up in the original thread but just confirming that the folks at wiki.gg are happy to help us move. -- Banksia (talk) 22:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
I'm content to stay here, honestly, same as EGGS. Nothing wrong has really happened here, and I don't like the idea of leaving behind a wiki for just anyone to edit whilly-nilly and screw up a bunch of people who come over here after we're gone, confusing those people with whatever they edit. Just me personally though. -- Zahadrin (talk) 17:58, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- People already see the wiki as something that people edit willy-nilly so does that make much of a difference in the end? -- Banksia (talk) 22:35, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
- It might well do Inept Wiki User (talk) 08:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
As for me I'm fine with it, as long as the looks of the wiki is the same, and I can still sign in and sometimes edit it. I check the new Warcraft wiki and it did not look that much different from the old wiki. Except for the search engines and the updates on the images. -- AquaHoshino03 (talk)
I would have no problem with moving. As said, Fandom has been really bad for wikis for years now, and you can really see the huge differences in presentation on wikis not managed by it (I'm thinking mainly Halopedia vs. Halo wiki, Tolkiengateway vs. lotr wiki, and ASOIAF wiki vs. iceandfire wiki). The only reason I don't see ads on Fandom wiki is because of Ad Block, having less of them would only improve user navigation. --The Lord Reader (talk) 05:09, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Fandom's bullshit on other sites they own has made me reach the point of being on board, so making a poll to gauge current interest. EGGS (talk) 13:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't really find an immediate need to move at this juncture considering the sheer size of this wiki and the amount of time it would take to port every single one of these articles over. DistortedDestiny (talk) 20:54, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- To my knowledge, the porting process is quick and simple. It's just a database dump. EGGS (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't typically get involved in this sort of stuff, but I'm throwing my hat in for moving. I admit to being largely ignorant of the behind-the-scenes issues, but being notified of this poll prompted me to get up to speed. I've partook in Fandom wikis for a long time and I can confirm that the experience has only been getting worse and worse as time went on. I was willing to put up with the ads since that's how websites stay afloat, but nowadays it's becoming clear that Fandom has been doing less screening of ads and more of shoving them in your face; I should be using my Ad Blocker to remove ads I don't want to see, not to simply navigate the site. To me it's a sign that Fandom is caring less about their communities and more about raking in money, and it makes me feel unsafe to leave such a large wiki in their hands. -- ScrewlooseOne (talk) 03:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
I do not mind the move to another wiki platform as long as the data (including custom functions and tabs) that has been added onto this wiki remains intact. -Nikdracor1234 (talk) 05:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Am unable to elaborate on thoughts at the time of writing due to circumstances on my end, but am against moving at this very moment due to recent wiki activity and assessed circumstances here. Inept Wiki User (talk) 08:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
somehow only saw this 10 months later lol
i only have a couple of edits around here, but i've lurked around for a couple of years and as someone who is admittedly a bit of a wiki nerd and has worked on other wikis in the past, allow me to rant a bit. i think that just about any wiki moving off of fandom and to some other host is a good idea, people may say that things haven't gotten bad enough, but i think that a lot of people are just too used to fandom's shenanigans to recognise how bad some things can really be.
i'm not sure how it goes for other people's mobile devices/browsers, but fandom is near unusable on my phone. the ads are infamously everywhere, and the infoboxes barely work at all (as in, they just cut off after some random point). wiki nerds are obviously more inclined to use desktop, but the average reader accessing websites on mobile is basically 50/50 with people on desktop, having a site be unusable on mobile cuts off nearly half of the traffic. accessing something on mobile should be quick and easy and shouldn't be stupidly hard, you shouldn't have to use an ad blocker just to access the site semi-normally (also worth mentioning that iOS adblockers that aren't malware are nigh impossible to find). waiting to move until things get too bad is a risky move IMO, they could do anything, even something like removing the choice to export the wiki. moving would save future headaches with whatever fandom conjures up next.
on the community side of things, concerns about leaving a vandalized corpse of a wiki behind are completely understandable considering that you can barely advertise the forked wiki on the fandom site without the staff members being sniped of their rank, but i'm a big fan of the idea mentioned above about working together with the people at beast's lair. while definitely not impossible if the wiki stays on fandom, i think that a move would be a great chance for the wiki to have a fresh start (and no, i don't mean to say that things should be done over from scratch). this wiki can tend to get a not-so-amicable rep if you ask around (as with a lot of fandom wikis), i think gaining back that reputation and also climbing the SEO ranks with the support of the greater community is good. this wiki is OLD, it has quite a few outdated things here and there, and it doesn't help that fandom wiki's forum/talk function is bad, whenever a big change wants to be made things don't end up going anywhere because of it. i personally like the idea of some sort of discord server (or really any kind of community hub solely for this wiki if one hasn't flown over my head) being set up, even if the server only has a handful of dedicated editors, changes would be done way more efficiently. at the end of the day, wiki editing should be a collaborative effort, and fandom's annoying "forums" don't help much at all. building a strong community (especially in a lore-focused community of an extremely big franchise) would be greatly beneficial.
as for hosts, wiki.gg is a good idea (great even since we have support from them), but it does concern me that they're supposedly run by the same people from gamepedia who integrated it into fandom. i admit that i am a bit biased towards miraheze, they did have a crisis and a major shutdown scare last year but they're better and stronger now. it seems that there was a miraheze alt set up a couple years ago but was shut down due to their inactivity policy, i think requesting a TM wiki on miraheze again and then moving to wiki.gg if that request gets declined would work.
in short, i think that by building a strong community basis, this wiki could grow even stronger with a move. i'm strongly in favour. - aspin
Poll
Sign with "# ~~~~"
In favor of moving
- EGGS (talk) 13:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Lord Reader (talk) 16:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Shinjutsuke (talk) 18:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- FacelessMoon5 (talk) 21:57, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- ScrewlooseOne (talk) 03:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Uchu40 (talk) 05:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- AeonTheFirst (talk) 21:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Banksia (talk) 13:09, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- AquaHoshino03 (talk) 3:13, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- Nikdracor1234 (talk) 5:38, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- Aspinlol (talk) 03:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
Against moving
- KarkatKitsune
- Zahadrin (talk) 16:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- DistortedDestiny (talk) 20:51, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Inept Wiki User (talk) 08:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)