Hi, I want to talk about Jeanne (Lancer) I don't believe we can call her a true alter. The materials state this: "The Servant summoned by Chiemon. True Name: Jeanne D'Arc. Class: Lancer. An Alter summon. It's normally impossible to summon an Alter of Jeanne D'Arc. Therefore, the version summoned in Fate/Samurai Remnant is a heavily distorted form. Her mind and identity are based on the Ruler version of Jeanne D'Arc rather than on the regular Jeanne Alter. Her Alter state comes in exchange of being unbelievably weaker than Ruler. Imagine a Jeanne with less strength of will.
The key concept is that of a saint accompanying a man who wishes for hell.
She has already discerned what Chiemon's true wish for the Waxing Moon Ritual is, and that is why she made her decision to dedicate her time in this summon exclusively to his salvation rather than to the salvation of many." Since it is normally impossible to summon her as an alter, and the lore itself states she can't have an alter, I don't think we can call this a true alter. Especially since it says it's a distorted form.“Her mind and identity are based on the Ruler version of Jeanne d’Arc rather than on the regular Jeanne Alter. Her Alter state comes in exchange for being unbelievably weaker than Ruler. Imagine a Jeanne with less strength of will...”
While the materials use the term "Alter state," they also emphasize that this version of Jeanne is still based on her Ruler form and not an alternative side of her or a corrupted version. Additionally, the logbook explicitly states:
“The original Jeanne d'Arc has no 'alternative side' to her. When summoned in Edo, it was not some sort of mysterious power that drew out a new side of her, but rather the hatred residing in the heart of her summoner that stained Jeanne d’Arc’s mind.”
The materials are being inconsistent with their wording and this description suggests that Jeanne’s state in FSR doesn’t fit the established definitions of an Alter in Fate lore, which generally fall into one of three categories:
- Corrupted versions (e.g., Saber Alter).
- Alternative aspects of their personality or legend (e.g., Okita Alter).
- New entities created by the Grail (e.g., Jeanne Alter Avenger).
Jeanne d’Arc (Lancer) doesn’t fit any of these categories. Instead, she willingly took on Chiemon’s hatred to relieve his burden, which stained her mind and altered her appearance. This is more of a surface-level change and doesn’t represent a new side of her personality.
Given this, I think it’s misleading to label her as an Alter in the same sense as other characters like Saber Alter or Jeanne Alter (Avenger). At most, this could be considered a “Pseudo-Alter” due to her appearance, but it’s clear she retains her core identity and isn’t a true Alter.
I’d like to propose removing her from the Alter list and altering her profile to clarify that she isn’t a traditional Alter but rather a unique case specific to her circumstances in FSR. Perhaps we could instead place her in the "Others" list for characters who don’t fully align with standard Alter classifications?
- I apologize, but I am definitely not the right person to raise this with. I just add Kanji and Rōmaji, and while I'm really serious about that field, I don't really get involved in anything deeper. PkMnTrainerMatan (talk) 09:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)