Dispute Over “Corrupt” in Second Ascension Description (Translation and Lore Conflict) Hello, I'm raising this here due to repeated reversions without meaningful engagement. The original Japanese term used to describe Jeanne’s second ascension state is 「堕落」, which in this context means spiritual decline or burden—not moral corruption. Jeanne bears the sin of sloth due to Metatron's failed synchronization. Angels are explicitly stated to lack personality, so the slothful state is Jeanne’s, not “Metatron’s,” and is the result of divine overload—not a personal failing. This distinction is important, as calling Jeanne ‘corrupt’ implies moral agency and wrongdoing, which contradicts both the game’s own narrative and her established role in the Fate franchise as a canonically incorruptible saint. This interpretation is consistent with the Japanese, and with Jeanne’s third interlude and wider lore, which reaffirms her canonically incorruptible nature. Using “corrupt” in this context is both linguistically inaccurate and thematically misleading. I’ve attempted to correct this twice with clear justification, only for it to be undone, once with an incorrect argument about it being “Metatron’s personality,” and once with no explanation at all. I’m requesting that we resolve this here rather than continuing through undo chains. If necessary, I’m happy to involve a moderator for neutral mediation.
Additional Note on Translation Nuance: While Google Translate is not a reliable authority on Japanese-English translation nuance, it’s worth noting that even it recognizes that 「堕落」 can mean “corruption,” “depravity,” or “degradation.” The term is context-dependent, and not inherently equivalent to moral corruption. In Jeanne’s case, the narrative explicitly states that she bears this sin due to Metatron’s failed synchronization—not due to any fault of her own. As such, the more accurate interpretation in context would be spiritual burden or emotional decline, aligning with her canon characterization as incorruptible.
- It is a personality description over a Metatron embodying the Deadly Sin of Sloth, not Jeanne herself.
- No, that’s not accurate. It is directly stated that Jeanne d’Arc serves as the "outer layer", with the Archangel Metatron as the "inner layer." Additionally, the profile explicitly states that angels are power itself and do not have personalities or emotions. The language used in the Second Ascension section clearly refers to Jeanne, not Metatron. It consistently says “she" when referring to sloth, unmotivated, etc. There’s no suggestion this is describing a separate Metatron personality. While Jeanne may have lost most of her humanity in the transformation, she didn’t lose all of it. The profile is clearly attributing the slothful state to Jeanne, not to a non-existent angelic persona.
- I accidentally submitted the latest revision without including an edit summary—apologies for that oversight. The revision simply restores the cleaner and more accurate version of the Second Ascension section, removing redundancy (“lazy” and “quite slothful”) and reinstating the explanatory footnote that clarifies Jeanne’s state as a spiritual burden rather than a moral flaw. This clarification aligns with both the Japanese nuance and Jeanne’s established characterization, and helps readers better understand what’s happening in that ascension. Since a wiki’s purpose is to explain and clarify, not just reduce things to the bare minimum, I felt this version should be live again. Still happy to discuss if needed.