Not to be rude, but I really don't think "Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya" or the successor count as the canon source for information on Nasuverse, so the details on Fragarach's mechanics revealed in there should really be counted as something like "fan speculation" or "alternate universe" and not canon. At least not without the expressed agreement from Nasu himself that these facts are indeed how it works. Yeah, I know someone will say "TYPE-MOON OKed this project", but that doesn't make anything in "Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya" canon, it just means that they gave the author permission to write about the subject. The thing is, I'm not going to consider "Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya" as a legitimate source of information on TYPE-MOON materials until someone can prove that it is indeed considered to be accepted as part of the canon by the creator of the canon himself. I also think that it should be noted that the information gleaned from "Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya" should be very clearly marked in articles as being "fanbase" or something at least informing the reader that it isn't directly from the first-hand source and is thus not completely accurate or reliable. --Murder of Crows 23:27, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
- As long as it doesn't contradict anything, it should be fine. It uses the same mechanics, so it's not like it's inserting completely ridiculous facts or something. The two specific details are referenced to the series, so people can choose to disregard them if they care about it that much. EGGS 23:37, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
- I suppose you are right; I just don't want to see people quoting things from "Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya" to support some kind of argument. Don't know why I care that much, though. It's probably because I'm a writer myself. --Murder of Crows 23:40, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
dudes, actually i read for somepart about fragarach and said this sword is actually a weapon of cu chulainn too. Wow, so cu chulainn is be a servant Saber too.
Well, no, he wouldn't be, cause Bazett has Fragarach. Just like how Avalon still exists in the modern world, thus Artoria isn't summoned with it, the fact that Fragarach is passed down in Bazett's family means Cu Chulainn wouldn't be summoned with it, even if he did wield it in the past. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 14:35, July 10, 2015 (UTC)
So, by that logic then, Artoria cannot actually be summoned as a Lancer Servant with Rhongomyniad because of El-Melloi Case Files? Zahadrin (talk) 16:01, July 10, 2015 (UTC)
well, that's obvious, in fact you think I'm so stupid to suggest something like that? ! that's stupid! God, that was offensive. what I meant was that in the legend of Cuchulainn is mentioned as the Fragarach receives from his father the god Lugh Cuchulainn but later gave it to another hero, the point was that I wanted to get to know this fact makes Cuchulainn in fact qualify for the Saber class only if someday Type-moon comes up to another series and pit Cu Chulainn as Saber servant class would know then what would be his noble ghost right?I just wanted to say that. I did not want to imply that this is the same situation with Avalon and Altria. oh and also has another sword though I'm not entirely sure, apparently it is a similar sword Claiomh solais, for those interested.
@Zahadrin: Yeah, pretty much. Noble Phantasms that still exist in the modern era haven't been transferred to the Throne. I don't know why the Throne couldn't/didn't copy these things, or what happened to the original versions of the Noble Phantasms that are copied, as I'm not entirely sure on the process by which one enters the Throne, but basically, if the Phantasm is in the world now, then a heroic spirit won't be summoned with it, otherwise Artoria would've been summoned with Avalon.
@Person who really needs to sign their posts: I don't think you're stupid, I'm trying to answer your question as best I can. As it stands, in the history of Cu Chulainn, he killed more people by spear and sling than he did with a sword. He also learned runes, fought from chariot back and transformed into a monster when he got angry. So aside from maybe Assassin, Saber is practically the class Cu Chulainn qualifies least for and without Fragarach as a phantasm, he's even less well built for it. I mean we've recently got Grand Order, and in that he's appearing as a Caster ahead of even Berserker or something. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:05, July 10, 2015 (UTC)
Well, I think you're right, in fact I exaggerate
mmm I respect your opinion but I think you are wrong in part. I do not think Saber Cuchulainn would be weak. It is correct, is better for the Lancer class but has many noble ghost to be part of all other classes except Assassin. in fact I think that the Caster class being what would be weak. You may invent Type-moon a noble strange ghost apart from their runes but what would have as a noble servant Caster ghost? as I said, I found that in the legend of Cuchulainn he has two swords, does not use it much and Fragarach the end of all the finished delivering another hero but if he is called as Saber then officially have those two swords or more. for those who do not know, possible other noble ghost, I know that there could be more, are: Riastrad, the mount Liath Macha and Dub Sainglend, the other sword called Claidheamh Soluis or Cruaidín or Cruaidín Catutchenn, another alleged spear called Del Chliss and a shield called Duban.
a mention I'm not sure if these weapons are actually vials or not so well could be mistakes that I've found, to mention only those who are interested. who also mentioned what Altria and as Avalon was invoked because I have a lot of theories and she is a true Servant is extremely powerful, people, reminiscent of Karna? Lancer of Red? But remember well his noble ghost named Kavacha and Kundala, in his legend he actually lost such weapons but it acquired when it was invoked as a servant. if you consider this then you will see that if Arturia would have been invoked as a true heroic spirit then she would be so or as strong as Gilgamesh and his fame is worldwide and more recognized than any other, it would have all their swords and other objects of equal power besides some noble ghost related to the roundtable or Camelot, the possibilities are endless. that is why type-moon used a version that only has Excalibur, would be very OverPower. Cromaxmaster (talk) 22:11, July 10, 2015 (UTC)
You raise an interesting point based on the fact that Artoria isn't a true Heroic Spirit as such, but we do have another example.
Avenger was summoned using his completely useless Auto-Writing Noble Phantasm which he then continued to carry around. Though I suppose one could argue he's not exactly a normal heroic spirt either, he is interred in the Throne, so would have no reason not to have it.
Similarly so, Strange Fake touches upon the First Emperor of China, who has a Phantasm currently existing in the world, but no mention as to whether or not he'd be summoned with his own copy.
Kavacha and Kundala were lost, this is true, but unlike Avalon or Fragarach, don't seem to have passed down through history, so it would seemingly be natural that it be manifested along with Karna.
All in all though, I don't think we have enough data here to say for certain, as I'm certainly no expert on this.
Aside from that, on the topic of Cu Chulainn and what he'd have as a Caster, he is noted to have a Castle Noble Phantasm available, and if there's one class that's good at making bases for themselves, Caster is right up there.Hawkeye2701 (talk) 00:08, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
oh no no no no, I do not think so, refute that claim.Cu Chulainn possibly as caster is a good Servant, never hesitate, but remember that his exploits were more on par with the physical than anything else so their skills in Runes are unknown or you give me more examples? So the NP as Caster is a castle? I bet you have to be the dark castle where I train with Scathat, something that would refute considering perhaps the NP Scathath and Uathach but hey, who cares.I firmly believe that the stronger version of Cu Chulainn is version Rider. Why? it possesses as NPs his spear, his horses and maybe another one. is basically their version canon armed with two or three NPs more!and people remember them mount heroic spirits who have identity, that is, proper names are unknown such as Grani or Rabicano or Bayard and others.unless the Cu Chulainn as the servant Caster has his skills as a lancer or something then droughts admit I'm wrong ...............you know, that's an interesting Thinking and if he has the ability "Double Summon"? mmmm good, no matter, I still think what I meant ...... besides, dammit, we have deviated from the main topic Fragarach ....... anyway for those who find fault in my writing I apologize, English is not my native language and translator for use and as we all know ....... Translator Internet is a crap .....Cromaxmaster (talk) 00:41, July 11, 2015 (UTC)