Talk: Artoria Pendragon (Saber)

In the box, the values of the Endurance ability does not show up.

Realta Nua text

Personal Skills?

I know the status screens and what have you note all hr skills, but Fate/Zero makes mention that Arturia's ability to walk on water is the Blessing of the Lady of the Lake. So if only for the Kiritsugu section in the info box should it be added as a personal skill? Hawkeye2701 04:33, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Saber's role after her death

Heroic Spirits are those who have been removed from the time axis and placed on the Throne of Heroes, while Saber can still be considered living. The hero known as King Arthur is not currently classified as a Heroic Spirit, so she cannot be called a complete Servant. She made a pact with the World as she was on the verge of death after the Battle of Camlann that will require her to become a Counter Guardian, a sub-category of a Heroic Spirit at the service of the World, after her death. These pacts are normally done by those requiring the power beyond ordinary humans to become heroes during their lifetimes, but her wish instead came at the time of her death because King Arthur didn't require support to become a hero.

No, that's wrong. A pact that Saber made will require her to become a regular Heroic Spirit, not a Counter Guardian.

The contract with the world always leads to becoming a Counter Guardian. That's how it gets its stock of them. I don't think it is ever directly referred as such only because the concept isn't fully explored until UBW. EGGS (talk) 11:34, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

No, becoming a Counter Guardian will follow only when the person wish to become a hero during his/her life. Saber needn't that, she already was a hero, her wish was totally different. I might be mistaken though... 95.52.9.144 18:02, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

That seems to be the most general wish people make to the world, but it is still the same pact. She mentions that she became a hero on her own, but so she fervently wished for the Holy Grail at the time that she reached out to the world. EGGS (talk) 18:19, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Newly added info

"Well-structured meals" and "Badly-structured meals" sound like overly-literal translations of what's supposed to mean "good meals" and "bad meals", don't you think? MarqFJA (talk) 13:41, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Arturia vs Altria

I have been watching subbed versions of Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero, but I have never played the games. I notice that while the subbed versions call her Arturia, the wiki refers to Saber as Altria. Is there a reason for this, such as that being the official translation in the games? Just curious, I suppose. UltimatBlitz (talk) 03:00, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Type moon does release official translations at times which do, at times, possess errors as they are essentially taking something translated into Japanese from a different language and trying to turn it into English. In this case, the official name is Altria to my understanding, but most subs and the like came before this release and simply provide Sabre's name as Arturia for the feminine of Arthur. I primarily blame the genderswap for this, as if the translation was incorrect for the male version, we would've corrected it to Arthur, but since Sabre is given a more feminine name, we're uncertain of either error or intention and just use the official version on the wiki. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 15:33, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

Arturia has yet to be utilized officially even once, Altria has been used at least three times, and Artoria has been used once. We'll always go with the most official romanization, unless it is obviously wrong like "Karuna." EGGS (talk) 19:05, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

I would like to note that the very source that gave us "Altria" as a romanization of Saber's name -- namely, Fate/complete material III: World Material -- also claims that Rider's name is Medousa, Berserker's name is Hercules (when everyone in-universe clearly calls him Herakles, and the katakana in the same source reads Herakulesu), and in Fate/Zero material Waver's title post-Fate/Zero is claimed to be "Load El-Melloi" instead of "Lord El-Melloi". Whoever wrote those books quite probably did not check back with Nasu on the name spellings. MarqFJA (talk) 13:45, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Here is the thing on that though, unlike those other names, which are actual names from mythology or real words where we already know how they are spelt, and using the mis-romanizations would be just ignorant, Saber's name is basically an all new name that is only derived from Arthur, and there are conflicting sources on how it is spelt. Also, didn't EGGS mention that this source isn't the only source to use Altria? One source that also has other mispellings, OK sure. But three references? That is starting to look like a trend. Also, I doubt Nasu knows enough English to recognize where romanizations would be off anyway.--Otherarrow (talk) 14:37, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Some issues with the V-Max section...

I'm not sure if this info comes from actual interviews with Nasu, but there are a lot of issues with this section.  I'll just spit out a few.

Motorcycles do not have "steering wheels," they have handlebars.  The front wheel will never come up while braking.  The front wheel comes up during a wheelie, which is caused by the motion of the rear wheel.  The back wheel might come up while using a lot of front brake, and this is called a stoppie.  Furthermore, the Yamaha V-Max, even while bored out, is far from the largest displacement or the most powerful motorcycle that exists in the real world, although the description implies otherwise.  The weight of the machine shouldn't have an impact on the handling characteristics like the article implies unless you're talking about parking-lot speeds... that is, unless Saber forgot to properly inflate her tires.  Also, running at 6000RPM isn't pushing the machine by any stretch of the imagination; the "V-Boost" doesn't even kick in until 6500.  The V-Max tops out at 9000RPM, and even that is low by most motorcycle standards.  Some 600cc sportbikes can rev up to 17000+.

Just some random stuff.  Chalk this one up to me being a Type Moon fanatic and also an avid motorcyclist.

The info in the section comes from Fate/Zero's text. It could be the translation screwed up on some details (Japanese --> Chinese --> English), or it could be Urobuchi didn't bother doing his research. EGGS (talk) 18:21, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Compared to Joan d'Arc/Ruler

So rephrasing the interview's descriptive comparison between Saber and Ruler,: Saber/King Arthur is seen as more attractive/feminine (in face & body) than Ruler/Joan d'Arc? Because the question-answer note concludes, "The difference between Saber and Ruler is sex appeal." Am I wrong or otherwise? - BlitzGundam (talk) 06:37, December 18, 2016 (UTC)

What makes you think Saber is the one winning in sex appeal in that comparison?

The fact that Shirou, in the sixth episode of the anime adaption of the UBW Route, seemed sexually confused as he explained Strengthening magic to Saber. - BlitzGundam (talk) 23:21, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

Ruler has more sex appeal than Saber.

Official English Name

Apparently, in an interview at Aniplex USA regarding the English localization of Fate/Grand Order, Type-Moon stated that the English version of Saber's name is "Altria", not "Artoria". Citation: https://clips.twitch.tv/BraveGoldenSoybeanCurseLit Arawn 999 (talk) 23:21, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

Localization is truly a difficult job. But thanks to them, we can now consider Altrius to be the Old Latin origin of "Arthur", not Artorius. Seriously, those researchers were terrible, thinking Arthur would be the Welsh version of Artorius/Arturius when it was obviously Altrius. I'm so glad localization got it right :D

But ok, Altria it is. -- Hitsuji Mamoru (talk) 04:40, June 23, 2017 (UTC)

Given this, shouldn't her Identy section be rewritten to reflect Type-Moon's official stance on the matter? Arawn 999 (talk) 09:33, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

There are several instances of Artoria in both Japanese and English, and the name is specifically the feminine version of Artorius. I do want to use the official TM romanization if applicable (even if it is sometimes nonsense), but this is just a clear case of the language barrier rather than a true stance on the name. As long as we list Altria as a possibility, that will be enough. EGGS (talk) 19:14, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Artoria is not the feminine version of Artorius, it's the plural form. That's Nasu's misunderstanding (or deliberate interpretation or whatever, he's wrong). 109.15.19.150 23:09, July 12, 2017 (UTC)

Saber's suit

Out of curiosity, was the suit that Irisviel picked for Saber measured by inseam or outseam? Saber could have looked good in either suit, but I am curious. - BlitzGundam (talk) 01:21, July 4, 2017 (UTC)

I don't believe the anime nor the novel actually mentions which it was measured by, and I confess, I don't know enough about tailoring to know the difference.Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:44, July 4, 2017 (UTC)

'Outseam' is from the top of the waist band to the desired length down the outside side of the leg, while 'inseam' is from the crotch down the inside seam of leg to desired length. - BlitzGundam (talk) 15:36, July 24, 2017 (UTC)

Age

Apparently the Japanese version of Artoria/Altria's Fate/Grand Order profile says she's biologically 15 while the English version bumps her age up to 16. This isn't the first time I've noticed that the English localization of Fate/Grand Order has contradicted the Japanese version - referring to Artoria/Altria and Mordred with masculine pronouns while the Japanese version and all other media unambiguously refers to them as being female, for instance. Which version do we go with? Arawn 999 (talk) 13:11, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

It's confusing as the side material for F/SN says her physical age is a year younger than Shirou, whose 17, while Garden of Avalon states she is 15. Incub7 15:40, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

I recall Nasu stating Saber is biologically a year younger than Shirou, but not that he's 17. His status as a 2nd year student in a Japanese high-school indicates that he'd be 16, which meshes with the statement that Saber is biologically 15. Is there an official source for Shirou's age beyond the "All characters in this work are +18." disclaimer I recall seeing on a scantlated copy of the manga? Arawn 999 (talk) 15:42, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, it's just the age this wikia goes with, but if Shirou is 16 like you claim he'd be then Saber and Sakura would be the same age (physically) since Sakura's junior to him.Incub7 16:05, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

So there is no official statement, then? Well, if the Garden of Avalon and Japanese version of Fate/Grand Order both say Saber is biologically 15, then going by Nasu's statement that makes Shirou canonically 16. And yes, that would mean that Sakura is ~15 as well, depending on how much younger than him she is. Arawn 999 (talk) 17:06, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

Also going back to what he said about Artoria and Mordred being referred to with masculine pronouns in the english FGO, well they're not the only ones as masucline pronouns were used for Atalanta when she's encountered in Orleans. It's really bizarre cause they use feminine pronouns when she's encountered later in Okeanos. The texts of FGO NA (especially early on) just seem to be filled with grammatical errors, but I think it got better later on....I think... I know it's off topic but I wanted to say it since you mentioned it earlier.Incub7 18:46, September 27, 2018 (UTC)

Fate/side material - Concerning ["I know how to please a man" was from experience.]

The ambiguity on this is concerning, even more so when considering the fact that it implies Artoria may have slept with another man as a possibility, which is unfound and baseless. I would humbly request that some clarification is added to Saber's page regarding this. So that more people can understand that it is actually referring to her time as a pseudo-male, and does not refer to her experiences as a woman. 

In Garden of Avalon, 'The Departure', when Artoria speaks to Merlin, she says, as quoted:   

"I, unlike you, never got involved with someone of the opposite gender." 

Source: Garden of Avalon - Book & CD. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckVJmBriGdE (45:22 - 45:35) 

From this we can decude that Artoria never engaged in romantic nor sexual activity with a male. Not as a king, nor before that. "Opposite gender" also suggests that she may have engaged in sexual activity with one or more women. 

Fate/Grand Order character information in Bond 1: 

男性として振る舞ってきたため異性からの好意には疎い。 

"Due to conducting herself as a man, she is unfamiliar with affection of the opposite sex." 

This informs us that, since she lived like a man, she had no understanding of affection towards other men. This is also further confirmed in Garden of Avalon's same chapter mentioned above. 

Also, it would make no sense why Shirou is considered the one person to open her heart to womanly feelings in official lore. Because otherwise it would mean she wasn't truly posing as a man, and engaged in sexual activity of her womanly side. This not only contradicts the primary plot of Saber's route, but also most of the official information related to her. 

Since there is information confirming it, it is also stated on the Japanese Type-Moon wiki:  当然（女性としての）性行為の経験はないが、『殿方を悦ばせること』は知っている。

"Naturally, she as no sexual experience (as a woman), but knows how to pleasure a man." 

As the largest and most resourceful Type-Moon Wiki for fans across the globe, I request that this important piece of information too is added to Saber's page. 

Sawato90 (talk) 19:41, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

I was under the impression that her knowledge of "how to please a man" came from when she was gender-flipped by Merlin. Arawn 999 (talk) 20:22, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

Indeed it does seem like that. While it is never clarified where it came from, that is a likely possibility beside others. The issue is with that there is a significant misinformed bunch that has been crusading around with this line from the Fate/Side Material, pressing the notion that it means she slept around/had a male sex partner some time in her life. I believe that it should be explained. 

Sawato90 (talk) 20:42, October 5, 2018 (UTC)

It is done. I've placed the information you've stated in her personality segment in the second paragraph cause i didn't know where to put it. Incub7 05:02, October 6, 2018 (UTC)

Saber's wrist

There's a silver chain on Saber's right wrist when she wore the black suit in the 4th Holy Grail War. Can someone tell me what that chain is? --Kajune (talk) 03:49, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

It's probably just something irisviel bought on a whim as an accessory to the suit with no particulary meaning behind it.Incub7 04:55, December 5, 2018 (UTC)

Artoria vs Altria 

Would including a section on her name be prudent, since TYPE-MOON has stated that the official English version of her name is "Altria" when discussing the localization of Fate/Grand Order, despite games like Extella and Extella Link continuing to use "Artoria" and FGO's English localization team wanting to use Artoria before being overruled. Arawn 999 (talk) 18:51, July 5, 2019 (UTC)

I find it strange Typemoon allowed her to be localized as "Artoria" in the Extella games yet they didn't permit it for the english localization of FGO, instead opting for "Altria". But on the topic at hand, I don't think it's necessary to do so, and seems to be a waste of time to create a section for how her name has always been inconsistent throughout the frachinese. Even the FGO NA localization know this, and even gave the Master Artoria artwork Takeuchi drew as an example of a previous use of the name "Artoria".

Stats in Extella Link

Shouldn't her stats for the EXTELLA games be updated to include her parameters from EXTELLA Link? They're Strength: B, Agility: B, Magic: A, Luck: A+, Noble Phantasm: A++; as opposed to the first game, which seems to have erroneously gave her an A in strength given that what's in the Extella material databook supports her parameters from the sequel. Ascha'Vovina (talk) 21:04, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

Contract section

"Upon learning new knowledge, the self that learns will disappear after their duty is complete." Does this have anything to do with Saber's memories or is there a writing mistake ?--Gabriel417 (talk) 10:01, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Servants don't (usually) retain memories of past Holy Grail Wars. The only reason Saber does is that she's still alive. That's all I can say regarding that quote.GuessWhoYoutube (talk) 10:18, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

"Weaker than Shirou or Rin"

Pretty sure I heard that was stated in her profile, but as Servant Stats are, I feel I should ask to be sure if that's actually true or if I should just leave it omitted as it has been? Zahadrin (talk) 09:01, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Her strength comes from her Burst, so she's human-level if she purposely doesn't use it. They go over it in the FSN baseball scene. EGGS (talk) 15:32, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. I was under the impression that Saber's weakness was just due to having Shirō Emiya as a Master. That she's as weak as a human without her Mana Burst strikes me as unusual, since the page for Servants makes it sound like even the weakest of them - even the ones who didn't possess powers in life but obtained them by becoming Heroic Spirits - innately has superhuman strength, durability, and speed beyond those of a normal human; for example, Gilles de Rais casually crushing a human skull with his bare hands while only possessing D-rank strength. And later entries in the series establish Artoria/Altria at her full power (which - going by her Parameters - she actually surpasses with Rin as her Master) as being comparable to a Top Servant. Ascha'Vovina (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

FGO personality

I wanted to add a subsection notinge the changes in Artoria's personality seen in FGO (along with how her appearance suggests she has become a true Heroic Spirit), but the section was reverted. Is there a problem with it? --69.243.5.130 05:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

A separate page for Saber from Zero?

Hi everyone. I know this is causing some confusion, but shouldn't Saber and Saber from Zero be separated into two different pages? After all, they're parallel worlds, and Type Moon has repeatedly separated Seiber from FSN and Zero, even in their popularity polls (not to mention that Urobuchi wrote the character a bit differently). Since we've separated Gilgamesh from FSN and Fake, for example, shouldn't we do the same with Saber? I'm certainly not insisting, it's clear that it doesn't make much sense from a textual standpoint, but wouldn't it be fair to the character? Especially since the 4th Grail War in the universe was different from War in Zero. I'm just asking to think about it a bit.

The differences are so minor that it's not worth even thinking about. Outside of very specific discussion on parallel worlds and canon, nobody really differentiates them anywhere. Ever since Nasu pulled a hard retcon with Atrum Galliasta's existence, he's kind of backed off on the slightly different parallel world narrative anyway. EGGS (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, okay. In that case, perhaps it would be worth combining Fake's Gilgamesh with the main Gilgamesh Archer? Isn't it a similar situation there? The same character, just in different timelines, and written by different authors. Why is there a separate page for the Fake version? After all, it doesn’t contain anything valuable except Gilgamesh’s participation in the plot.

Fundamentally, every single summoning of a Servant can be considered a separate character, but that'd be silly for an encyclopedia to worry about. FSN Gil and FSF Gil are special cases that exist as two separate incarnations in the same world, so they're each a completely unique existence that can be differentiated directly by the text itself. Both appear within the story, though FSN Gil is just one flashback and references to the Fuyuki Wars. EGGS (talk) 23:18, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, this doesn't sound very convincing, because then we could split up any Servant who was summoned more than once, but what's the point? For example, Artoria, Iskander, Medusa and many others can be summoned in the worlds of Extra, but they don't have separate pages. It doesn't make sense here either, it's not like it's a different form of Gilgamesh or a different class, it's literally the same character, he just doesn't have memories of past Wars. I think it would be right to combine these pages. As with FSN and Zero Saber these Gilgameshs have no differences if we look at it from that perspective. There are too few differences; literally on the page of the main Gilgamesh it will be enough to indicate that he has lost his memory of past events and that’s all. KapitanKrabik (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Fate/stay night - New Fate Route Anime Remake

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Star Rail Collab Section?

Just a quick question, should a page for the events of the Star Rail collaboration get its own page? It IS a Holy Grail War taking place. There are also the implications of one of the pseudo servants named "Grady".

In principle, no reason there can't be a page on it. If it's the kind of collab where the content is sufficiently long and actually features the Fate characters interacting with the other characters in great detail, a page about the game and the collab can certainly be made. If it's the kind of collab that's like 15 minutes of story with barely any real interaction, I'd limit it to List of TYPE-MOON media#Honkai: Star Rail and a link to their wiki if there is one. Either way, pages on characters from the other series shouldn't be made unless they appear in a TYPE-MOON work, or if it's the kind of collab where Nasu made an original character that actually ties back to TYPE-MOON somehow. EGGS (talk) 21:18, 11 July 2025 (UTC)